My name is Phil and I came across your website. It had a lot of info on subjects that I am interested in. I have no real belief system yet. And actually don't think I would be able to ever have one.-not that I don't have any morals; I mean, I have better morals than most my christian friends. I don't think you have to believe in god to live a righteous life.  I highly disagree with any organised religion. I was raised catholic, so it's easy to see why I call b.s. on "one god".

Cutting to the point...

Lately, I have been researching real history of the world, and that has taken me into religions and their similarities and who made them up and why and all that stuff, yada yada. Anyway, I have always wondered, even before my research why there were so many different religions as it is now a days.  I mean, if Jesus was the true "son of god", why were people not worshiping him. To me, it's still that simple. Now, that I am researching, I see many other "sons of god" thru-out history. Your site actually lists more than I knew existed. Now, the ones I had alredy researched proved many similarities. Then, I get to your site, and you know a lot/did a lot of research to find differences and similarities.(very impressive) But, I mean, even the differences you have found, really aren't like day and night. I mean, even though they are different, there are still strikingly similar facts there.(you had to notice) So, my beef is that, if there are so many "sons of god" with stories all varying in details, but carrying the clout, doesn't that not make any of them very significant to anyone other than a believer? So then, I would hope the believer would take a step back and look at the evidence of it all before making their decision on which god they prefer.

Another point or insite on how there are so many "sons of god" and why their tales contain similar details is that maybe they are all recycled from one source. Because whether Jesus existed or not, time goes back a lot farther than 2000 years. And a lot of the other sons of god do too. What if the story of all of them is true; just one story though. That would mean everyone is worshipping the same god. This is about as close as it gets to what I believe.

I'm sure you have probably heard this, or thought about it all before. And if I come off hostile, I am sorry, hopefully you made it this far. And just so you know, which again, I'm sure you do...there are a lot of interesting websites, a lot to do with Christ (the latest son of god) and truths about the origin of the bible and theories on why it was created.

Thanks for reading, if you made it this far.

Phil

I have no real belief system yet. And actually don't think I would be able to ever have one.

As the band Rush says, “if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice”.

not that I don't have any morals; I mean, I have better morals than most my christian friends. I don't think you have to believe in god to live a righteous life.

I agree. I think an understanding of right and wrong is something written into us. You don’t have to believe in God before it comes to you. I know many non-believers who are very kind people.

I highly disagree with any organised religion. I was raised catholic, so it's easy to see why I call b.s. on "one god".

I think that most religions (not just the Jesus-centered ones) tend to be more good than bad, in that they encourage morality, kindness, and spirituality, but I think there’s problems in any kind of organized group, be it religious, political, social, or whatever. Groups tend to encourage conformity and discourage individual creativity and questioning of the group’s policies. I’m overall in favor of the existence of organized religion, because it's good for some types of people, but it’s not the kind of thing I can get heavily into, myself. I prefer to listen to God than to a preacher.

Anyway, I have always wondered, even before my research why there were so many different religions as it is now a days.  I mean, if Jesus was the true "son of god", why were people not worshiping him. To me, it's still that simple.

Except all you did there was ask a question. Why were people not worshipping Him? You need to find an answer before you can say “it’s that simple”. I know a lot of people who worship Him, and a lot of people who don’t. You need to understand why people do and why people don’t before you can draw an answer to your question.

But, I mean, even the differences you have found, really aren't like day and night. I mean, even though they are different, there are still strikingly similar facts there.(you had to notice)

There are similarities, yes, but they are hardly “striking”. The comparisons between Abe Lincoln and John Kennedy are far more striking than anything I’ve found between Jesus and any other pre-Christian deity, yet no one would accuse Kennedy of being a Lincoln copy-cat.

So, my beef is that, if there are so many "sons of god" with stories all varying in details, but carrying the clout, doesn't that not make any of them very significant to anyone other than a believer? So then, I would hope the believer would take a step back and look at the evidence of it all before making their decision on which god they prefer.

That’s what I’m trying to do with my site. I’ve seen so many non-believers making false claims of comparisons between Jesus and such-and-such deity, and I wanted people to have the facts instead of being duped by illegitimate claims.

A question you should maybe be asking is - if the similarities between Jesus and pre-Christian deities is so striking, why do non-believers feel the need to “pad the account”, so to speak, by making up false similarities? Why not just give the facts and let people draw their own conclusions from them?

Another point or insite on how there are so many "sons of god" and why their tales contain similar details is that maybe they are all recycled from one source.

You name any two people in history, and I could probably find “similar details” between their lives if I searched hard enough. Only if the similarities outweigh the differences does it really mean anything.

Because whether Jesus existed or not, time goes back a lot farther than 2000 years. And a lot of the other sons of god do too. What if the story of all of them is true; just one story though.

You have to go where logic leads you when it comes to something like this.  Suppose you’re a homicide detective standing over a murder victim, and you realize that there are hundreds of suspects. Should you just say “I have so many suspects that I should just give up and not arrest anyone for this murder”? Or should you investigate and see who is the most likely culprit? I believe that Jesus is the "most likely culprit", far more likely than anyone else or than no one at all.

That would mean everyone is worshipping the same god. This is about as close as it gets to what I believe.

Actually, I do believe that most, though not all, religions worship the same God, but just understand Him differently. I think that God is too big for any one religion, or any one person, to get a complete picture of   (that’s not to say that all religions are equal - some are more right than others). I believe that there have been religions in the past which have worshipped false Gods, but those religions have died out for the most part.

I'm sure you have probably heard this, or thought about it all before. And if I come off hostile, I am sorry, hopefully you made it this far.

You don’t sound hostile at all.

And just so you know, which again, I'm sure you do...there are a lot of interesting websites, a lot to do with Christ (the latest son of god) and truths about the origin of the bible and theories on why it was created.

Yeah, I do like visiting sites that give alternate beliefs and theories, and chatting with non-believers on message boards and stuff.

Thanks for writing, and feel free to write back if you have any other points or questions.

Peace,

David

As the band Rush says, “if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice”.

----I love Rush, the drummer is bad-ass

Except all you did there was ask a question. Why were people not worshipping Him? You need to find an answer before you can say “it’s that simple”. I know a lot of people who worship Him, and a lot of people who don’t. You need to understand why people do and why people don’t before you can draw an answer to your question.

-----I guess what I was trying to say/ask here, but failed, was that: if jesus was the true son of GOD-the creator, "authority"(for lack of a better word at the moment), then wouldn't his word have been spread when he was alive ALL OVER THE WORLD? I mean, the bible wasn't even written untill some 300 years after he died. So, even if I wanted to believe he was a real guy or even what they say he is, how would I know the original writers of the bible got the story straight, and had pure intentions...they didn't even know the man. Plus, wouldn't there be something else besides the Bible confirming his exsistence? I just would think the whole world would understand-all of man would know Jesus during his time, not just that one area where he lived. If the guy could walk on water, raise the dead, etc.. I would think he could travel to other continents, performing miracles, so the would could witness his holiness, instead of just that area of the world where it all happened.

There are similarities, yes, but they are hardly “striking”. The comparisons between Abe Lincoln and John Kennedy are far more striking than anything I’ve found between Jesus and any other pre-Christian deity, yet no one would accuse Kennedy of being a Lincoln copy-cat.

----I still think they are similar enough. But you definitely have a point about the Lincoln/Kennedy similarities; I forgot about that while I wrote  the first time. That s**t blows my mind too.

That’s what I’m trying to do with my site. I’ve seen so many non-believers making false claims of comparisons between Jesus and such-and-such deity, and I wanted people to have the facts instead of being duped by illegitimate claims.

---good call

A question you should maybe be asking is - if the similarities between Jesus and pre-Christian deities is so striking, why do non-believers feel the need to “pad the account”, so to speak, by making up false similarities? Why not just give the facts and let people draw their own conclusions from them?

--- I hear that, and I am, and I used to believe in Jesus and what I thought he was about; not just what I was told about him my whole life. I wanted to read stuff like the gospel of St. Thomas, which I do agree with still. But lately, in my searching, I have found reason to believe he my have not even existed. And it's almost more than just research, sometimes I almost have a faith that my thoughts are the truth.

You name any two people in history, and I could probably find “similar details” between their lives if I searched hard enough. Only if the similarities outweigh the differences does it really mean anything.

----good point

You have to go where logic leads you when it comes to something like this. Suppose you’re a homicide detective standing over a murder victim, and you realize that there are hundreds of suspects. Should you just say “I have so many suspects that I should just give up and not arrest anyone for this murder”? Or should you investigate and see who is the most likely culprit? I believe that Jesus is the "most likely culprit", far more likely than anyone else or than no one at all.

--- I hear that, but for this, why does there have to be a culprit. It's almost like people need to believe in the possibility of a human having the  powers of god. Maybe to personalize it, bring it close to home so to speak.  I have no idea why, or if that's even the case, but I could see how one would need/want to. I mean, like you said, god is too big for one person/religion/set of beliefs. I agree, it's too big to even think you have a handle on it in my opinion. I mean, I think I am spiritual, and I know anyone with any sort of belief in a god is spiritual, but I don't see how one can classify, or point a finger at a certain way. Because no one really knows, it's just a guess, even if it's an "educated" one.

---Thank you for the response, and a quick one at that. Your website has a lot of good points and info. I could see myself a few years ago coming  across your site, and being converted.

Peace to ya,

Phil

Hey, Phil.

-----I guess what I was trying to say/ask here, but failed, was that: if jesus was the true son of GOD-the creator, "authority"(for lack of a better word at the moment), then wouldn't his word have been spread when he was alive ALL OVER THE WORLD?  I mean, the bible wasn't even written until some 300 years after he died.

Actually, the evidence suggests that most of the New Testament was written within 35 years of the time Jesus walked the Earth. I’m not aware of any reasonable scholar, Christian or not, who would date any New Testament writing much past 100 years after His time.

So, even if I wanted to believe he was a real guy or even what they say he is, how would I know the original writers of the bible got the story straight, and had pure intentions...they didn't even know the man.

They all knew Jesus one way or another. The Gospel writers either knew Him during His ministry, or got their stories from those who did (Matthew and John were apostles, Mark got most of his story from Peter, and Luke used many sources, including several apostles).

And if they had impure intentions or were changing things around - what was their motive? Considering the persecution Nero was throwing on Christians in their time, telling lies about Jesus would gain them nothing but torture and misery (there’s some evidence that most of the New Testament authors were put to death). Even if they believed that they could avoid persecution, they had to have known that anyone they converted was at risk (and if they were lying, they knew that these people were risking their lives for absolutely nothing). Can you really read the Bible and conclude that those who wrote were that reckless or cruel?

Plus, wouldn't there be something else besides the Bible confirming his existence?

There is. Josephus and Tacitus wrote about Him, and there’s other indirect evidence.

And even ignoring all of that, isn’t the Bible enough? It’s a collection of writings greater than that for practically anyone else of that time. I doubt that Julius Caesar had that much written about Him in a similar time period.

I just would think the whole world would understand-all of man would know Jesus during his time, not just that one area where he lived. If the guy could walk on water, raise the dead, etc..I would think he could travel to other continents, performing miracles, so they would could witness his holiness, instead of just that area of the world where it all happened.

The biggest obstacle to Jesus’ word being spread all over the world during the three years of His ministry is mankind. Had Jesus traveled the world spreading His message, He surely would have been killed before He got very far. People from most cultures wouldn’t have been kind to a Middle Eastern Jewish person. Look at what people in Jesus’ own area did to Him.  God had a plan for the Messiah to come through the Israelites, so that’s where He started. Jesus’ word has spread over the world since then.

----I still think they are similar enough. But you definitely have a point about the Lincoln/Kennedy similarities; I forgot about that while I wrote the first time. That s**t blows my mind too.

That may be one of the more striking ones, but you could do this kind of thing with just about any two people in history, real or fictional, if you know enough about them. If you want to see something else interesting, take a look at this page (http://www.tektonics.org/nappy.html ), showing how Napoleon fits into the ancient sun-god myth a heck of a lot better than Jesus does. Some quick examples (there are more on the page):
-Napoleon means “True Apollo”, and Apollo was a sun god.
-Apollo was born on an island in the Mediterranean. So was Napoleon.
-Apollo’s mother was named Leto. Napoleon’s mother was named Letitia.
-Apollo had three sisters (the “three graces”). Napoleon had three sisters.
-Napoleon came to France from the East, and, after defeat, settled to the west of France. This symbolizes the sun’s travels from east to west.

But lately, in my searching, I have found reason to believe he may have not even existed.

The very idea that Jesus never existed is actually a relatively recent thing. It apparently began in the 18th century. It seems that a certain amount of time had to pass before it could be taken seriously. One of the big problems with this theory (though by no means the only one) is that it would have been incredibly difficult for the Apostles to have gotten that much authority in Jerusalem itself if they were preaching about someone who the locals would have known wasn’t a real person. Had no one in Jerusalem remembered Jesus, the Apostles would have been largely ignored when they tried to convince the locals to follow Him.

And it's almost more than just research, sometimes I almost have a faith that my thoughts are the truth.

Nothing wrong with faith, obviously. But it has to be a logical one if you want to convince others of it.

It's almost like people need to believe in the possibility of a human having the powers of god. Maybe to personalize it, bring it close to home so to speak.

It doesn’t appear to be based on any need, since no other religion which teaches of a person with God’s authority and power has thrived. The closest thing any other major religion of today has to a Jesus character would be people like Buddha or Mohamad, who merely had wisdom. They weren’t gods in anything like the sense that Jesus was.

---Thank you for the response, and a quick one at that. Your website has a lot of good points and info. I could see myself a few years ago coming across your site, and being converted.

Well, try to keep an open mind. There was actually a time in my life when I swore I would never convert to Christianity, myself.

David