Dear David,

I've read a good deal of your debate with the Jeffrey guy. I'd like to say I'm on his side actually but I think he could use a few lessons on being tactful. You have remained calm, collected, and appear as intelligent person to me. I admire you for being able to at least consider possibilites and also for being able to critically argue as an adult. I wish all Christians were more like you.

My response that may or may not settle your guys' repetitive arguing for proof of texts that they claim to have seen regarding Horus being raised from the dead, walking on water, etc. are actually irrelevent. Horus is only one source of parallel to Jesus. There are many more. I recommend that you watch Zeitgeist, The Movie online for free. Make sure you watch it directly from their website which will take you to the correct spot on Google Video. Only a small portion is discussing religion in general, these guys aren't atheists and they're not christian bashers. Their entire organization is for a social cause called "The Venus Project."

I would love for you to watch this movie, and talk to me about it. I'd like to hear what an intelligent Christian man says in response. I'll never attack or name call you as Jeffrey did. That guy came off to me as a frustrated jerk.

10/5/09

Joel,

I've seen the first third of the movie (the parts regarding religion) and bits and pieces of the rest. I've even written a response to the religion portion, which is here: http://www.kingdavid8.com/Zeitgeist.html

If you want to discuss the movie, I'm absolutely willing to do so. I look forward to talking to you.

David

Dear Mr. David.

I question the video's claims and sources after reading what you've sent me. Thank you for responding so quickly.

I have questions for you as a human being now.

1. Why did God create lucifer if he knew he'd corrupt? He creates the punishable and a place to punish them for eternity? Why create evil at all? Can he not see the future?

2. Without science, how can one comprehend the eternal existence of God? Something had to create the God or the energy of atoms that could be called god in a self-aware universe.

3. If the bible says that Jesus is the only way to get into heaven, what of the millions of people with different beliefs? Or the people who don't even know about Christianity? I've not read all of the bible, but I have read that those who blasphemize, or do not believe in Jesus as our savior, will meet Jesus at the pearly gates and Jesus will say " I never knew you" What happens to those people? Isn't it evil for a perfect entity to banish people into eternal suffering if it was the work of the devil anyway?

4. If pain is physical, why would hell matter? Is it suggested that our after-life energy/spirit will be able to experience pain and fear?

Forgive my unorganization.

Sincerely,

Joel

10/6/09

Joel,

Thanks for writing again.

"1. Why did God create lucifer if he knew he'd corrupt? He creates the punishable and a place to punish them for eternity? Why create evil at all? Can he not see the future?"

The answer to each of them boils down to free will. God gave us the ability to choose right and wrong, good and evil. When we have the ability to choose good or evil, then evil is naturally going to happen now and then. The only way to prevent evil from ever happening would be for Him to destroy us all, or to make us mindless robots, pre-programmed to do only what God wants us to do. Personally, I'd rather be able to have free will and choose between good and evil, even if it means I'll choose wrong on occasion. Just being God's puppet, doing only what He forces me to do, doesn't sound like a life I want to live.

And, personally, I think people give Lucifer far too much credit, almost making him out to be the evil counterpart to God, the ultimate source of evil. Actually, I think he's relatively powerless, nothing more than a tempter, and I'd even say Jesus' sacrifice took away satan's power for the most part - even if he tempts us into doing wrong, our sins are forgiven, so he's won nothing. The source of evil is us and our free will, but I believe that God is more concerned with us being able to choose our paths for ourselves than He is in making the world one where evil is impossible.

"2. Without science, how can one comprehend the eternal existence of God?"

Science, by definition, deals only with the natural world. You have to go beyond science in order to comprehend God. But I do believe, personally, that science points to God. We know that our universe is organized enough that life can exist and thrive for billions of years. To me (and most people, I'd say) that suggests purpose, and purpose suggests an intelligent creator. In fact, it was a college astronomy course that turned me from atheism to theism, convincing me that the order I was seeing in the universe suggested design, not chaos.

"Something had to create the God or the energy of atoms that could be called god in a self-aware universe."

I don't believe that anything had to create God. Only things which begin to exist require a cause, and I believe that God is eternal, without a beginning or an end. The idea that everything requires a cause is illogical, since if we could somehow follow the chain back, we'd have to find *something* at the beginning, something which either began to exist without having a cause (which I believe is impossible) or which always existed (much more likely). Let's call this the "original thing". The "original thing" always existed, so it's ultimately timeless - it has no beginning, and thus will have no end. We know that the "original thing" isn't the universe itself, since the universe did begin to exist, about 14 billion years ago. We also know that this "original thing" is capable of creating other things either out of itself or out of nothing. This original thing ultimately created all that exists, except for itself of course. Obviously, I believe that the "original thing" is the God which created the universe. But even if it's not our God, it has to be some sort of God. We could theorize that the "original thing" is the God which created God, and God created the universe (or the God which created the God which created the God, etc.). But why assume a progression of Gods when a much simpler solution is that there is only one God, itself the "original thing", which itself created the universe? I believe that logic favors simpler explanations over more complex ones. Could the God which created the universe itself be a creation? Could be, but why assume it is if we know that there is something in the universe which always existed and which is capable of creating?

"3. If the bible says that Jesus is the only way to get into heaven, what of the millions of people with different beliefs? Or the people who don't even know about Christianity? I've not read all of the bible, but I have read that those who blasphemize, or do not believe in Jesus as our savior, will meet Jesus at the pearly gates and Jesus will say " I never knew you" What happens to those people? Isn't it evil for a perfect entity to banish people into eternal suffering if it was the work of the devil anyway?"

I don't pretend to know exactly who will get into Heaven and who will not. And I've honestly never met any Christian who believes that only those who accept Jesus as their savior, with ZERO exceptions, will get into Heaven. For example, almost all Christians believe that babies who die will get into Heaven, yet they've never accepted Jesus as their savior, right? Most agree that people who are mentally handicapped to the point that they can't comprehend Jesus will get into Heaven. I do believe that if you accept Jesus as your savior, in your heart, that you will get into Heaven.

You're right that the Bible says that those who blasphemize will not get into Heaven. But keep in mind that it's not blasphemy against Jesus being talked about here, but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. To me, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God. It's the knowledge that sin is bad and love is good. That sin is bad and love is good seems like it's completely obvious, right? Who wouldn't agree with that? But I see so many people in the world who seem to embrace sin, who have no problem engaging in things that they know are wrong - violence, robbery, rape, murder, etc. People who refuse to act out of love for their fellow man, to do what they, in their hearts, know is right. They sin without repentance. They go completely against what they know God wants (or would want) for them. This is what I consider to be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

People of other faiths may not have been taught about Jesus, but they're still without excuse when it comes to the Holy Spirit. If they favor love over hate, if they favor forgiveness over sin - if they accept the Holy Spirit instead of blaspheming it with their attitude towards life - then I believe that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross might cover them as well.

"4. If pain is physical, why would hell matter? Is it suggested that our after-life energy/spirit will be able to experience pain and fear?"

I don't believe that hell, or heaven for that matter, are physical places. I believe that the talk of hell being a place of fire is ultimately allegorical, an attempt to explain what it's like to people who could never comprehend what it's really like. I can't describe what they would be like, since I can't understand it myself, and the Bible even says that Heaven, at least, is incomprehensible (1 Corinthians 2). I also don't believe that "eternity" is an endless progression of time, as most people seem to think of it, but a lack of structure to time. Science has shown that time and space are interrelated, so once we're outside of this physical universe, we'd also be outside of time. 2 Peter 3 says "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day".

David

10/8/09

“The answer to each of them boils down to free will.” & “I believe that God is more concerned with us being able to choose our paths for ourselves”

I believe that the meaning of free will contradicts the sentence “God has a plan for us all” and “Everything happens for a reason”. I believe in Action/Reaction. I believe evil is learned, not in human nature and that all other form of human corruption is from our various monetary systems. I’ve also been told before there is actually a sub-group of Christianity that believes people are born to go either to heaven or hell, regardless of there earthly endeavors. That's just nuts.

“Science, by definition, deals only with the natural world.” & “You have to go beyond science in order to comprehend God. But I do believe, personally, that science points to God.”

We may have different definitions of “the natural world.” My understanding of the natural world boils down to atoms and energy which are in all matter. As far as an intelligent creator, I disagree but so I don’t come off as being overly contradicting, I see what you’re pointing at with the word. I also believe science points to God. But in ways we won’t understand for a long time. I’m not an atheist Mr. David, I believe that an energy of some sort started all of this. But I believe Christianity is just as distorted from scientific nature as all other human religions and superstitions are…with all due respect.

“The idea that everything requires a cause is illogical”

I agree.

“We could theorize that the "original thing" is the God which created God, and God created the universe (or the God which created the God which created the God, etc.”

It is a maddening concept that can make a man go crazy. My current theory is that we live in a multi-verse. I won’t go crazy and waste your time, but think of the popular theory our universe is never ending or “currently expanding”. Say you impossibly reached this “expanding wall” and went faster than it… What would be there? It’s a never-ending concept. There is the unknown concept of a space foam made of dark matter (which we know nothing about) where our universe is a tiny bubble amongst many universes. There are many scientific theories that are very interesting but can’t be explained or proved with our current technology I guess. But whatever it is it may be something deeper than our human words like “nature and science”. I’m only looking for truth, not to bash Christianity.

“But keep in mind that it's not blasphemy against Jesus being talked about here, but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.”

Actually I do believe it’s all apart of a misinterpreted story Jesus included. I don’t want to say people are wrong but I just think they’ve given into something that gives them security of what happens when we die. I was a Christian a few months ago. Zeitgeist didn’t turn me away from it, my own questioning did. And I know to a Christian that saying Jesus never existed is a horribly sad thing. That something so noble and huge like him dying for our sins go underappreciated or not believed. Well, I personally find comfort in the idea that no man named Jesus ever had to go through the pain and suffering and humiliation and torture that Christianity’s Jesus did. I’m currently still with the theory that it’s is a misinterpreted story of similar ancient religions. People are born into different religions and they have the same sympathetic conversations we have about their religions. They feel sorry for Christians because they think they know the real way to get into a totally different spirit paradise doing what they say. Isn’t it arrogant for Christians to so boldy assume that their religion is the right one?

“the Bible even says that Heaven, at least, is incomprehensible”

That the bible said that isn’t of great significance is it? Any thoughtful person or philosopher from any era, any story teller or writer could use the words, “It’s incomprehensible.” Death itself has always been incomprehensible because no one has returned from it to tell. And the people who claim to have seen things after they were “dead” on the operating table = zero electricity in their bodies/ no pulse…what they have to say could be what happens to us when we die couldn’t it? Of course some random person wouldn’t be shown on tv saying they were dead and all they did was “dream”.

I believe that when we die, we turn into a dream. Any one who says that “saw the light” wasn’t seeing the light of heaven. It’s all imagination. Beautiful human imagination. Can you at least agree that Christianity may be only a story, and we dream for eternity after we die? Personal question.

I noticed as you have this has turned into our sharing of opinions. I would still like to email with you whenever you find the time.

Thanks,

Joel

10/8/09

Joel,

"I believe that the meaning of free will contradicts the sentence “God has a plan for us all” and “Everything happens for a reason”.

I believe that God does have plans for us, but it's up to us to go along with those plans. Many people do not. I would certainly say that Hitler didn't go along with whatever God's plan was for him. Or Charles Manson. Or Jeffrey Dahmer. I'm guessing that God's plans for them involved *not* murdering people.

And everything happens for a reason? I'm not sure I agree with that, but I guess it depends on what you mean by "reason". A reason isn't always a good thing. If I robbed a bank because I needed money, my robbery had a reason (desire for money), I suppose. When people say "everything happens for a reason", they usually mean that no matter how bad an event was, God will make it so that it's ultimately a good thing that it happened, that the ripples the event causes will make things better overall. A pleasant idea, for sure, but if that were true, then I might as well just go and do whatever wickedness I feel like doing, since I know that no matter how horribly I act and how many people I hurt, God will make it so that it's better overall that I did it.

"I believe in Action/Reaction. I believe evil is learned, not in human nature and that all other form of human corruption is from our various monetary systems."

I know the Bible says something along those lines, that the love of money is the root of all evil.

But I wouldn't say that evil is learned, because if it was, how did the very first act of evil occur? Who did the person who did that evil learn it from? I think that evil can be learned at times, and can come from our very nature at times. I believe that as long as we have free will, evil will eventually result, even if we have no examples to learn from.

"I’ve also been told before there is actually a sub-group of Christianity that believes people are born to go either to heaven or hell, regardless of there earthly endeavors. That's just nuts."

I've met people who believe that. I agree, it's just nuts. I do believe that salvation is a free gift from God, available to all, but that people have to choose whether or not to accept that gift.

"We may have different definitions of “the natural world.” My understanding of the natural world boils down to atoms and energy which are in all matter. As far as an intelligent creator, I disagree but so I don’t come off as being overly contradicting, I see what you’re pointing at with the word. I also believe science points to God. But in ways we won’t understand for a long time. I’m not an atheist Mr. David, I believe that an energy of some sort started all of this."

I agree that we can't understand God. I think it would be like a cat understanding a human. They might understand some things about us, but just don't have the capacity to really get us. For that matter, I'm not sure that one human can ever really understand another human. For that matter, can one human ever really understand himself?

"But I believe Christianity is just as distorted from scientific nature as all other human religions and superstitions are…with all due respect."

We can certainly agree to disagree there, so no problem.

"Actually I do believe it’s all apart of a misinterpreted story Jesus included. I don’t want to say people are wrong but I just think they’ve given into something that gives them security of what happens when we die."

I must say I never quite understood that concept. If there is nothing to come after this world, then what do we have to fear by death? Why fear "nothing"? Only if there is something to come after this world is there something to be afraid of.

I see a lot of people try to argue that "we want for God to exist, therefore He doesn't". Desire for God to exist isn't evidence that He doesn't. I want to believe that my wife loves me, of course, but that isn't evidence that she doesn't, right? I want to believe I'll still have a job next week, that doesn't mean I won't, right? Personally, I believe that there is more to existence than just the natural because the evidence, to me, suggests that there is more. The fact that I would like for there to be more doesn't change that.

"And I know to a Christian that saying Jesus never existed is a horribly sad thing. That something so noble and huge like him dying for our sins go underappreciated or not believed. Well, I personally find comfort in the idea that no man named Jesus ever had to go through the pain and suffering and humiliation and torture that Christianity’s Jesus did."

Well, the evidence strongly suggests that He did, and I think it's smart to go where the evidence points. We have at least three (probably five) Roman non-Christian historians who wrote about Jesus (two are a bit questionable, but I'm convinced that they did). The evidence for Jesus' existence is so strong that people didn't really start questioning it for about 1800 years (it took a lot less time before people started questioning the Holocaust or the moon landing). While I certainly understand skeptical people questioning the miraculous elements of Jesus' story, like walking on water or being resurrected, I think the evidence for His having existed is stronger than it is for just about anyone else from that era, and there's really no rational reason to doubt it. Even His detractors of the 1st and 2nd century at least agreed that He existed.

"I’m currently still with the theory that it’s is a misinterpreted story of similar ancient religions."

The evidence doesn't favor that at all, though. I've investigated that claims of parallels and found the vast majority of them to be completely fabricated. If there really is a valid claim for Jesus being based on earlier deities, then why are people feeling the need to create bogus evidence in order to prop it up? I honestly have yet to see anyone arguing for the "copycat" claims who hasn't used any bogus evidence. I think anyone who goes solely to where the evidence points would find the evidence for Jesus' existence to be overwhelming and for there to be no significant evidence against it.

"People are born into different religions and they have the same sympathetic conversations we have about their religions. They feel sorry for Christians because they think they know the real way to get into a totally different spirit paradise doing what they say. Isn’t it arrogant for Christians to so boldy assume that their religion is the right one?"

Considering that I've yet to meet anyone who assumes their religion is the *wrong* one, I'm not sure what's surprising about this. Atheists believe they're right. Muslims believe they're right. Mormons believe they're right. I'm not quite sure what it is that you believe, but I'm guessing that you believe that you're right. If you believed that you were wrong, I'd be shocked. Even the new-agey people who say "all religions are equally valid" believe, I'm sure, that they're right that all religions are equally valid.

"I believe that when we die, we turn into a dream. Any one who says that “saw the light” wasn’t seeing the light of heaven. It’s all imagination. Beautiful human imagination. Can you at least agree that Christianity may be only a story, and we dream for eternity after we die? Personal question."

I believe that anything is possible, but I prefer to go where the evidence points. Personally, I've weighed the evidence for and against Jesus, and would have to say that I'm about 85% convinced that He was resurrected, which is more then enough for me to find it convincing. If He wasn't resurrected, then the authors either knowingly lied or mistakenly believed He was, and I don't find either idea consistent with what evidence we have. If we only had one Gospel from one author, then I think it might be more likely, but multiple sources make it far less likely.

"I noticed as you have this has turned into our sharing of opinions. I would still like to email with you whenever you find the time."

Absolutely!

Peace,

David

10/9/09

“And everything happens for a reason?”

I don’t believe that, that was another thing that I said freewill contradicts.

“I might as well just go and do whatever wickedness I feel like doing”

That mentality is another reason why religions will never be disproved. Even if there is evidence out there that does prove that it is superstitions, like old old versions of the bible before they were reinterpreted many times and whatever the dead sea scrolls actually say etc. None of it will make the news in this world because of people with those minds. With no moral boundaries. They will kill and do wrong because when they die they believe there’s no one to punish them, as I believe. It should be our religion to love each other and to do good.

“that the love of money is the root of all evil.”

The bible is very right then. And everyone loves money, because we have to have it in order to survive. Not everyone, but most. But any thoughtful person could’ve said something along the same lines anywhere in history. People come to that same conclusion now-a-days without ever having read the bible or history books. Thoughtful people wrote the bible but...supposedly inspired by God.

“how did the very first act of evil occur?”

When looking back that far you should consider nature and our animal instinct for survival. The very first forms of aggressive behavior would have been fighting over a mate or for food, if you could call that evil. But that’s as “evil” as we should have ever gotten. With the birth of the monetary system we have ruthless competition, materialism, status, greed, stealing, and I would bet that all crime in general can all be blamed on the monetary system and peoples needs for survival. Which in this world, money = survival power.

“I think it would be like a cat understanding a human…they don’t have the capacity”

I like that example.

“For that matter, can one human ever really understand himself?”

I believe that very few people have ever really known themselves. What you’re talking about is enlightenment Mr. David. It’s not just for Buddhists either. I’m on a never-ending search for truth and self-knowledge too. This is a good way to live. And since you brought it up, I recommend you read a book called “Think On These Things” by Jiddu Krishnamurti.

“If there is nothing to come after this world, then what do we have to fear by death?”

The reason people cannot cope with the concept of there not being a heaven is the fact that they might lose everything. They will not be reunited with anyone they love or know, they won’t retain any of there experiences or knowledge. That can be a scary thing to people can't it? I would love to live eternally in heaven with my wife, therefore it's easy to believe in Christianity. It provids great comfort and security. That’s why everyone should only live for fun and love. To have the maximum amount of fun at all times and to only endure when we have to. Drudgery is a waste of human life and capacity, and we’re all apart of it because of our monetary system.

“Personally, I believe that there is more to existence than just the natural world because the evidence, to me, suggests that there is more.”

I agree with you Mr. David but in a non-religious context. To think that the same atoms you see intelligently composed together forming beautiful things like palm trees and human eye-balls…have the same intelligence to give us what we see in our dreams. There is something very special at work here.

“Well, the evidence strongly suggests that He did” - About Jesus existing.

I’ll have to trust you for now, because I don’t have the time or energy to do extensive research. But as far as his magic, I do not believe in him. I do believe he tried to do a good thing though based on powerful faith in Christianity.

“I've investigated that claims of parallels and found the vast majority of them to be completely fabricated. “

You may be right. I’ll have to research and read for myself one day.

Sincerely,

Joel

10/11/09

“DAVID: And everything happens for a reason?”

"JOEL: I don’t believe that, that was another thing that I said freewill contradicts."

I know. I was just agreeing. But thinking more about it, I suppose you can have free will and the idea that everything happens for a reason. That something happens doesn't necessarily mean that God controlled it, just that God allowed it to happen. Meaning that if I chose to do something that God didn't approve of, He might allow it to happen *if* he Knows that my doing so will end up bringing about positive results in the long run, though this would mean that God would refuse to allow it to happen if it wouldn't. So it would be a limit upon our free will, but it wouldn't mean that free will doesn't exist at all.

"That mentality is another reason why religions will never be disproved. Even if there is evidence out there that does prove that it is superstitions, like old old versions of the bible before they were reinterpreted many times and whatever the dead sea scrolls actually say etc. None of it will make the news in this world because of people with those minds."

I believe it would get out, if it existed. Even if the major media outlets refused to spread the word, there are people who would gladly put the information on web pages or in books (which are much harder to suppress), and no one could really stop them. We already have lots of people spreading bogus information this way, so if they had real evidence against Christianity, they could get it out the same way.

"With no moral boundaries. They will kill and do wrong because when they die they believe there’s no one to punish them, as I believe. It should be our religion to love each other and to do good."

Atheists do, in general, have moral boundaries, though. They don't believe that there is a God who will punish them in the afterlife, but most of them don't bother going around killing and doing horrible stuff. I think it's because God made us to know right from wrong, so it's not something you have to believe in God in order to do. It's like it's in your DNA. You don't gain your conscience once you start believing in God, or lose it once you stop. Historically, yes, atheist regimes have been more brutal and oppressive than religious regimes, but that's still just a case of a small number of people acting wrongly, and even many religious leaders, like Torquemada, have acted wrongly, so it's nothing unique to atheism.

"The bible is very right then. And everyone loves money, because we have to have it in order to survive. Not everyone, but most. But any thoughtful person could’ve said something along the same lines anywhere in history. People come to that same conclusion now-a-days without ever having read the bible or history books. Thoughtful people wrote the bible but...supposedly inspired by God."

I think that even those who don't believe in God can be inspired by Him. They just don't realize that they are. I have many atheist friends and family members (in fact, among my parents and siblings, I'm the only Christian), and they are more or less as moral as I am.

"When looking back that far you should consider nature and our animal instinct for survival. The very first forms of aggressive behavior would have been fighting over a mate or for food, if you could call that evil. But that’s as “evil” as we should have ever gotten."

And I wouldn't call that "evil" at all. Wild animals do that stuff, but aren't evil.

"With the birth of the monetary system we have ruthless competition, materialism, status, greed, stealing, and I would bet that all crime in general can all be blamed on the monetary system and peoples needs for survival. Which in this world, money = survival power."

Personally, I don't believe that the monetary system itself is good or evil. It's just a question of who is using it and how. Evil, corrupt people will use the monetary system (or any system which can give them power) in evil, corrupt ways. So, I don't believe the monetary system created evil, just became a tool used by it.

Let's face it - we all have a selfish side. I guess I can see where it comes from, since I do believe (unlike many Christians) in evolution. In evolution, the fittest survives and the weakest dies. Those who "have" thrive and those who don't, don't. Evolution, essentially, favors selfishness over selflessness. It's in our genes to be selfish. But I don't believe that our souls came to us via evolution, but are something that God, at some point, blessed us with. That comes from Him directly.

Out of curiosity, have you seen Michael Moore's latest film? I haven't caught it yet, but am hoping to see it this weekend. My mom is actually very good friends with Michael Moore.

"I believe that very few people have ever really known themselves. What you’re talking about is enlightenment Mr. David. It’s not just for Buddhists either. I’m on a never-ending search for truth and self-knowledge too. This is a good way to live."

Excellent. I think a lot of people, when they find a religion, think that they already have all of the answers and stop looking. I think that doing so is incredibly shallow, and we should always be looking further. I'm certainly willing to look further, but as long as I believe that Jesus was resurrected, as I feel the evidence shows, I have to believe that Jesus is incredibly significant when it comes to the answers.

"And since you brought it up, I recommend you read a book called “Think On These Things” by Jiddu Krishnamurti."

I'll have to look for that one. I just checked my library's website, and they have some books by Krishnamurti, but not that one.

"The reason people cannot cope with the concept of there not being a heaven is the fact that they might lose everything. They will not be reunited with anyone they love or know, they won’t retain any of there experiences or knowledge. That can be a scary thing to people can't it?"

I wouldn't call it scary. Maybe a bit sad, but I don't see what there is to fear about it. If I were to die today, the only thing I'd have to worry about was how my family was going to cope with my death, whether my wife and kids would be able to get along okay without me. But that's true whether I'm going into another world or just ending right here.

"I would love to live eternally in heaven with my wife, therefore it's easy to believe in Christianity. It provids great comfort and security."

But again, the fact that we might desire to believe in it doesn't make it false. My belief that my wife loves me gives me great comfort and security, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't.

“DAVID: I've investigated that claims of parallels and found the vast majority of them to be completely fabricated."

“JOEL: You may be right. I’ll have to research and read for myself one day."

Please do. When someone first heard the claims, I admit that I was a bit worried that there was some truth to them, but have spent years looking for the parallels, and asking those who make the claims to provide the stories, or other evidence, so that I can see it for myself. And no one has been able to. Of course, it's still possible that the stories exist and I just haven't found them yet, but I think if they did exist, they wouldn't be that hard to find. Christ-mythers would be parading these stories for the world to see, wouldn't they?

If you haven't seen it, the "hub" of my Christ-myther response stuff is here:

http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/Home.html

David

10/13/09