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Re: Jesus The Savior (page 2)

Jude responded:

Shalom David,

Hosea 11:9........For I am God and not a man, the holy one in your midst.

Numbers 23:19 {in part} God is not a man nor a son of man.

Isaiah 44:24........Thus says YHWH, your redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, I, YHWH, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by myself, and spreading out the earth all alone.

Isaiah 44:6... Thus says YHWH, the king of Israel their Redeemer, YHWH of hosts; I am the first and I am the last, and there is no Elohim besides me.

Isaiah 43: 10 [ in part ]... Before Me there was no Elohim [God }formed, and there will be none after me.

Psalm 49:7...no man can by any means redeem his brother, or give to God a ransom for him - Your Jesus could not be fully God because he took on flesh, NT says he is the son of man. So he must have been a God/man.

This does not line up with the hebrew scriptures. God is one, He does not slumber or sleep, He is out of time and He will not share His Glory.

Salvation comes in the name of God. His name is YHWH {Yahweh} Yahweh, in the Hebrew means, I Am that I Am. By this Name is salvation. Scripture says to call on His name, yet the NT says there is only one name, Jesus.  The NT goes against Hebrew scriptures.

Psalm 106:48 Blessed be YHWH, Elohim of Israel, from everlasting even to everlasting. And let all the people say, "amen." Praise YHWH!

Psalm 116 [in part ] I love YHWH, because He hears. I will call on Him as long as I live.

Psalm 135:1...Praise YHWH! Praise the name of YHWH

Psalm 144:1 Blessed be YHWH , my rock

If Jesus is the only name to be praised and have salvation by believing in this name, something is wrong. There are not two names, only one, YHWH. You can not get Jesus, being Greek out of YHWH and you can not get yeshua or Yah shua. Yah is part of the true name. Joshua, in the Hebrew starts with Yah. The study of names is great but a person could not get anywhere with out the Hebrew. Hebrew is easy to learn.

My main prayer is, " Please do not let me be deceived or deceive anyone else!"

Jeremiah 5:1 Jerusalem would have been spared, if one seeking truth could be found.

Check this out.....New Testament translated from the Greek by...Rev George Swarnn copyright 1947

Lord's prayer in Greek does not say: Thy kingdom come nor give us this day our daily bread. [ it was left in anyway, so people will not stumble ]

talking to Jews: you have heard that it has been said, love your neighbor and hate your enemy...........

Proverbs 25:21-22 if your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink

Matthew 5:22 if you call your brother a fool [racal, Arabic ] you shall be in danger of hell-fire

Matthew 23:17.. Jesus talking to his brothers the Pharisees and scribes... " you fools and blind men.

This is the words of your example in all things.

This is your God ???? Hebrews 5:8 although he was a son, He learned obedience from the things he suffered. I bet you think he is the passover lamb ? The lamb is to have no blemish. Jesus or so it is said, was whipped, marred, beard pulled out, bleeding from wounds...not a spotless sacrifice and on top of this, a human one . A murdered human sacrifice. This is about as pagan as it goes.

Shalom, Jude [Judy ]

Hosea 11:9........For I am God and not a man, the holy one in your midst.

Numbers 23:19 {in part} God is not a man nor a son of man.

Both are speaking in present tense.  They say God is not a man, but not that God will never manifest Himself into human form. In fact, even in the Old Testament, He manifests Himself into human form on occasion (like when He appears before Abraham or when He wrestles with Jacob).

Isaiah 44:24........Thus says YHWH, your redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, I, YHWH, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by myself, and spreading out the earth all alone.

That's true.  God stretched out the heavens and spread out the Earth all alone.  He also manifested Himself in the flesh as Jesus.

Isaiah 44:6... Thus says YHWH, the king of Israel their Redeemer, YHWH of hosts; I am the first and I am the last, and there is no Elohim besides me.

Isaiah 43: 10 [ in part ]... Before Me there was no Elohim [God }formed, and there will be none after me.

Since Jesus is God, He is not something separate from God.  The New Testament would only violate these passages if Jesus was something completely separate from God.

Psalm 49:7...no man can by any means redeem his brother, or give to God a ransom for him

Yes, no mere man can do this.  But Jesus was no mere man.

our Jesus could not be fully God because he took on flesh, NT says he is the son of man. So he must have been a God/man.

Yes, Jesus was both God and man, since He was God manifested into a human body.

This does not line up with the hebrew scriptures. God is one, He does not slumber or sleep, He is out of time and He will not share His Glory.

These details (all but the last which I'll deal with separately) apply to God's spiritual, eternal nature which, being outside of time, is incapable of change. While this form always exists, God can also step into 'our world' and be inside time as we know it.  When He talked to Noah, when He created the ten commandments, when He wrestled with Jacob, when He parted the Red Sea, when He made the sun stand still, and when He appeared as Jesus - all of these things meant that He was, however briefly, part of our world and our time structure. God is capable of anything, and anything He does in no way violates the fact that He is an eternal, spiritual, invisible being.

As for the glory, since Jesus is God, any glory going to Jesus goes to God.

Salvation comes in the name of God. His name is YHWH {Yahweh} Yahweh, in the Hebrew means, I Am that I Am. By this Name is salvation. Scripture says to call on His name, yet the NT says there is only one name, Jesus.  The NT goes against Hebrew scriptures.

Salvation is not in any 'name' alone.  If I named my dog YHWH, could my dog save me?  Even Jesus said that not all that call on His name will be saved, because salvation must be sought with the heart, not just with the lips.  Salvation comes through God Himself, not just through His name.

My main prayer is, "Please do not let me be deceived or deceive anyone else!"

I absolutely love that prayer!  More people need to be focused on not being deceived or deceitful.

Lord's prayer in Greek does not say: Thy kingdom come nor give us this day our daily bread. [ it was left in anyway, so people will not stumble ]

I've never heard that.  My literal dictionary says the phrase for 'thy kingdom come' is the Greek 'erchomai ho basileia sou', which means 'let come the kingdom of you', and 'give us this day our daily bread' is 'ho artos hemon ho epiousios didomi hemin semeron' which means 'the bread of us daily, give to us today'.  So they're apparently in the Greek version of the prayer.

talking to Jews: you have heard that it has been said, love your neighbor and hate your enemy...........

Proverbs 25:21-22 if your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink

How is that a contradiction?  Jesus isn't telling us to hate our enemy.  He's saying that others say to hate our enemies, but that we should love them instead (the whole passage is in Matthew 5:43-44, "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; (KJV)" Jesus was agreeing with Proverbs.

Matthew 5:22 if you call your brother a fool [racal, Arabic ] you shall be in danger of hell-fire

Matthew 23:17.. Jesus talking to his brothers the Pharisees and scribes... " you fools and blind men.

The Pharisees and scribes weren't His brothers, since they rejected Him.  He was talking about calling fellow believers 'fool'.

This is your God ???? Hebrews 5:8 although he was a son, He learned obedience from the things he suffered. I bet you think he is the passover lamb ? The lamb is to have no blemish. Jesus or so it is said, was whipped, marred, beard pulled out, bleeding from wounds...not a spotless sacrifice and on top of this, a human one. A murdered human sacrifice. This is about as pagan as it goes.

Jesus was without blemish, since He was sinless.  Jesus didn't die for our physical imperfections, but for our spiritual imperfections.  There was nothing 'pagan' about what Jesus did for us.  What He did was a self-sacrifice, voluntarily taking our sins to the cross with Him.  He died so that we could truly live.  I've never heard of a pagan, or anyone, doing what Jesus did.  No mere man is capable of it.

God bless,

David

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Jude responded:

I see for sure you do not know the Hebrew. God is always present tense.  He is unchangeable. No, God does not have human form, God is not a human. With Abraham, it is a messenger [ 3 to be correct ] Two went to see Lot and one stayed behind. With Jacob, a messenger. Christians call them angels but in Hebrew, there are no angels. Jews borrowed Christian, angels. When you wrestle with a messenger sent from God, you have wrestled with God. God does not change. He is unchangeable.

Salvation does indeed come in a name! You made a very real and good point in saying, if your dog was named YHWH. You see God can not be seen in a form of one of His created beings, animal or human and that is good. When God dwells among us in the future, it will be different that what you think of. Your picture in your mind will be a human form, of a man/god called Jesus. How sad for all the small children that may want to walk with him and hold his hand. There will not be enough of him in that human form to go around. Your God has been formed into a human by man. [Rome] Rome did a bang-up good job of transforming the world. The whore of all the earth has caused us to turn our backs on the One Elohim. We are ripe and ready for the wrath, just like it was in thedays of Noah. The world follows the beast. Man is so small, he has a hard time comprehending an invisible Elohim [ God] We had to put a human form on Him.

David, We believed just like you. We rejected trinity. Jesus was God.  Once a person gets to that point, then YHWH can work with you. May He teach you of His ways even while you sleep ! May you be blessed in every way ! May the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob show you!

Of course your Greek says what you believe, it has been changed. The Hebrew into English has errors also. Time has warped things. :-)) Me thinks you do wrestle with the NT errors. In just about every pagan religion, a man called a god, does what Jesus did but then you already know all about this.

Exodus 3:13-16 Then Moses said to Elohim, " Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I shall say to them, The Elohim of your fathers has sent me to you. They may say to me, what is His name ? What shall I say to them ? And Elohim said to Moses, " Eyeh-Asher-Ehyeh [ YHWH ] It is rendered Lord, which is derived from the verb HAYAH, meaning I Am or I Am who I Am ] and He said."thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, Yahweh has sent me to you." And Elohim, furthermore, said to Moses, "thus shall you say to the sons of Israel, Yahweh, the Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is my designated [ appellation ] name to all generations.

So we see He has only one name, forever !

Exodus 15:1-3 Then Moses and the sons of Israel sang this song to Yahweh, and said, " I will sing to Yahweh, for He is highly exalted; the horse and its rider he has hurled into the sea. Yahweh is my strength and song, and He has become my salvation; this is my Elohim, and I will praise Him; My father's Elohim, and I will extol Him. Yahweh is a warrior; Yahweh; Yahweh is His name.

1 Kings 18:24 this is Eliyah talking to the prophets of Baal [ lord ] then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of Yahweh, and the God who answers by fire, He is God.

1 Chronicles 16:8-10 Oh give thanks to Yahweh, call on His name; make known His deeds among the peoples; sing to Him, sing praises to Him; speak of all His wonders. Glory in His holy name; let the heart of those who seek Yahweh be glad.

Psalm 9:10 And those who know Your Name will put their trust in you; for you, o Yahweh, have not forsaken those who seek you.

Psalm 69:30-31 I will praise the name of Elohim with song, and shall magnify Him with thanksgiving. And it will please Yahweh better than an ox or a young bull with horns and hoofs.

Psalm 116:17 To You I will offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving, and call on the name Yahweh.

Psalm 119:55 O Yahweh, I remember your name in the night, and keep your law.

Proverbs 18:10 the name of Yahweh is a strong tower; the righteous runs into it and is safe.

Isaiah 42:8 I am Yahweh, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another

Dead Sea Scroll 4Q MMT

I did not come to subtract from the Torah of Moshea or the Navirim nor to add onto the torah of Mosheh did I come. David, it goes on and on and the name Jesus is not mentioned.

A flight simulator is a valuable device to prepare future pilots. We need a machine to prepare future human beings to look behind the scenes, behind the scandal and even beyond the person. To be able to see that what society says is good, may in fact be evil and vise versa. Such a machine is the Torah. It trains us to know, to distinguish, to judge, to identify, and assess what is really going on in life.

The final goal of Yahweh's work............A day when the earth will be filled with knowledge of His glory as the waters cover the sea. Havakkuq 2:14 [ Habakkuk ]

Always, your friend,

Jude

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I responded:

Salvation does indeed come in a name! You made a very real and good point in saying, if your dog was named YHWH. You see God can not be seen in a form of one of His created beings, animal or human and that is good.

I actually agree with you on that.  God cannot be seen with our natural eyes.  When Jesus walked the Earth, people merely looking at Him did not automatically see God.  That would be impossible.  God could not be seen in the physical body of Jesus, but could be 'seen' (and frequently was) through a deeper spiritual understanding.  You said, 'when you wrestle with a messenger sent from God, you have wrestled with God'.  Exactly.  That's the same kind of understanding Jesus was trying to impart when He said, 'he that has seen me has seen the father' (John 18:9).  YHWH created Jesus just like YHWH created that messenger who wrestled with Jacob, only with Jesus, God put in His own spirit, His own wisdom. He made Jesus God in human form, not God in the physical sense, but in the spiritual sense.

When God dwells among us in the future, it will be different that what you think of. Your picture in your mind will be a human form, of a man/god called Jesus. How sad for all the small children that may want to walk with him and hold his hand. There will not be enough of him in that human form to go around.

Why not?  Will the world to come only be here for a limited time?  But you're right that when the world to come arrives, it will not be exactly what I'm expecting, since I don't know exactly what to expect.  The Bible says that it will be unlike anything we've ever seen or even imagined.  But while I do believe that Jesus will be in it, I don't believe that the totality of God will be within His body, any more than the totality of God was within Jesus when He walked the Earth.  God in his omnipresent, spiritual form did not change at all and never will.  You're absolutely right about that.  But what I believe is that God created a human body and gave that body His spirit, His wisdom.  Nothing was taken away from God.

Your God has been formed into a human by man. [Rome]

No, He was formed into human by His own hand.  Besides, the Jesus story precedes the Catholic church by several hundred years.

Rome did a bang-up good job of transforming the world. The whore of all the earth has caused us to turn our backs on the One Elohim. We are ripe and ready for the wrath, just like it was in thedays of Noah. The world follows the beast. Man is so small, he has a hard time comprehending an invisible Elohim [ God] We had to put a human form on Him.

I agree that people tend to do that.  This is one of the reasons I follow our God instead of Zeus, Baal, etc.  Our God is not the kind that man would have fabricated.  YHWH, and Jesus, are unique and ultimately above human understanding.

Me thinks you do wrestle with the NT errors.

No more than I wrestle with the Old Testament 'errors'.  What we have in both cases are claims of errors that are really just misunderstandings or mistranslations.  My Contradictions site deals with both testaments about equally.

In just about every pagan religion, a man called a god, does what Jesus did but then you already know all about this.

Actually, my research shows just the opposite.  No pre-Christian religious figure ever did anything like what Jesus did, or was anything like Jesus was.  It's true that some pagan deities were given Christ-like attributes after Jesus' time, but there's nothing preceeding Jesus that's remotely similar to him.  If you think you know of some pagan deities who preceeded Jesus and supposedly did what He did, please let me know their names so I can research them for myself.

So we see He has only one name, forever!

One name?  But you yourself (as do I) refer to God by several names, including 'God', 'Elohim' and 'YHWH'.  Even in the Old Testament, he is called both 'Elohim' and 'YHWH', among other names like 'Elahh' (book of Daniel) or 'El' (Joshua 3:10 among other places).

Dead Sea Scroll 4Q MMT

I did not come to subtract from the Torah of Moshea or the Navirim nor to add onto the torah of Mosheh did I come. David, it goes on and on and the name Jesus is not mentioned.

How could it be the Gospel of Matthew if it never mentions Jesus?  Matthew's Gospel was about Jesus.  This is clearly a text from outside the Bible, and I would never favor a non-Biblical text over a Biblical one.  Who would?

God bless,

David

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Jude wrote:

I enjoy reading what you write.

Only one name. God, Elohim, Elah,El, Abba [Father,] are all titles. The one and only name is YHWH, pronounced Yahweh. The meaning is I Am that I Am.

There are more pagan deities than I can count. For starters go to Nimrods day and also Egypt. I will look up the dates of others and send them later. I do not have them before me. I did a big study, wrote it all down but never thought I would need it again. I might add, my son is a history teacher and when I told him what I had found, he already knew and told me even more. I will get back to you on those ancient deities.

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I wrote:

I agree that there are many, many pagan deities. There's a site I really like called Encyclopedia Mythica (http://www.pantheon.org/areas/) that lists hundreds if not thousands of them. But what I'm questioning is whether any of these deities ever were claimed to have done anything similar to what Jesus did before Jesus' time. If so, show me who they were and what they did.

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Jude wrote:

David, what are you talking about ? what did Jesus do ? The other gods, born of a virgin, son of a father god, died to save people, resurrected, sits next to the father in the heavens. There was some that required believers to eat the body and the blood. There is so much, David. On yes, they rose on the third day usually on the first day of the week, now called Sunday, after the sun god. One walked on water and the list goes on. What were you thinking about concerning what Jesus did ? Some of us believe Jesus was a Hebrew anointed one, like so many others, fully human. He was born just like any other man. Xanity picks and chooses what they will use from Rome. Xanity did not adopt that Mary's mother was also a virgin, just for one thing. Jesus may have been a real figure but to say that he is a man/god...no, no, no God says He is not a man nor a son of man. Numbers 23:19 and For I am God and not a man, the Holy One in your midst. It just can not get any clearer. Oops, He forgot to tell the prophets that He would become half man and be called the son of man, even that would be a lie. He does not change. There is not one Hebrew scripture to support God became a man.  Isaiah 53 is a good example of what the church system uses.......this is talking about the people Israel and what the sins of the people did to them. In the Hebrew, the word he, is plural. It is the nations talking about Israel. Verse 4, yet it was our sickness that they were bearing.  Israel was wounded because of our sins. Look at what we did to the Jews in our history ? The holocaust, they went like sheep to the slaughter.  He [they] were cut off because of the sins of the pagans. Verse 9, death is in the plural [deaths] Verse 10, they had disease [ not Jesus or he would not have been with out blemish] Reading chapters before 53 and after, you will know the servant is Israel.  Josephus, Jewish historian never once made any reference to the Christian Messiah but years later, Rome added a paragraph, touching on the Messiah. That one paragraph is know by the Jews to be false and writing experts have said it was not written by Josephus. There was no printing press in the days of Josephus, so books had to be hand copied. This is where the church of Rome came in and added to the book in the 4th century, this addition first appeared in the writings of Eusebuis.

I asked the rabbi's, why they don't tell other people about all these truths. The answer hurt me, their reason is, in the past they would kill us and hurt our children. They went on to say, the world at large is Christian, rulers etc. They keep silent because of what has happened over and over in history. I do not want to keep silent. I would die for truth. They need to trust in Yahweh more, follow His commands, stand up in faith of protection because until they do, there will be no blessing on the people as a whole. A lot of the Jews today have adopted the ways of the pagans. It is called assimilation. They walk in fear and not in trust of the Mighty God [Yahweh]. They do not even want to say His name. They use HaShem, Adoni, God and Lord. I may be a thorn in their side because I am going to stand up for truth. I wish I had of known more when I was younger but Yahweh in His mercy probably knew I would not have been able to take it. The day I found out the truth, I had cried out to Yahweh, "teach me your truths, even if it hurts me." He did and it did ! It took me three weeks to come to complete healing. In my family, most act like they can not stand me. My daughter has said I have a demon. She is very active in Xanity. I can accept Jesus as a good Jew, going about doing what he thought was right but so much has been added to the story.  The Rabbi says, those that convert are stronger and know so much more that those born a Jew. Coverts are a blessing for truth.

Love, Jude

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I wrote:

David, what are you talking about ? what did Jesus do ? The other gods, born of a virgin, son of a father god, died to save people, resurrected, sits next to the father in the heavens. There was some that required believers to eat the body and the blood. There is so much, David. On yes, they rose on the third day usually on the first day of the week, now called Sunday, after the sun god. One walked on water and the list goes on.

Like who?  Which ones were born of virgins?  Which ones were resurrected?  Which ones walked on water?  Give me names, please.

What were you thinking about concerning what Jesus did? Some of us believe Jesus was a Hebrew anointed one, like so many others, fully human. He was born just like any other man. Xanity picks and chooses what they will use from Rome. Xanity did not adopt that Mary's mother was also a virgin, just for one thing.

Only because no one in Jesus' time claimed such a thing.  In fact, I can't recall ever hearing anyone make such a claim.  I know that many Catholics believe that Mary was sinless and a lifelong virgin (even after Jesus' birth), but the Bible doesn't say those things, and I'd say even suggests otherwise on both counts.

Jesus may have been a real figure but to say that he is a man/god...no, no, no God says He is not a man nor a son of man. Numbers 23:19 and For I am God and not a man, the Holy One in your midst. It just can not get any clearer. Oops, He forgot to tell the prophets that He would become half man and be called the son of man, even that would be a lie. He does not change.  There is not one Hebrew scripture to support God became a man.

Because He hadn't at that time.  But God, being omnipotent, can do anything He wants.  There's no reason why He couldn't make a human body and put His spirit into it.  It wouldn't change who God is.  The spiritual, timeless part of God still remains and always will.

Josephus, Jewish historian never once made any reference to the Christian Messiah but years later, Rome added a paragraph, touching on the Messiah. That one paragraph is know by the Jews to be false and writing experts have said it was not written by Josephus. There was no printing press in the days of Josephus, so books had to be hand copied. This is where the church of Rome came in and added to the book in the 4th century, this addition first appeared in the writings of Eusebuis.

Actually, Josephus mentioned Jesus twice.  One of them was in Antiquities 20:9:1, in which Josephus referred to "the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, whose name was James".  Clearly this wasn't added by a Christian, since no Christian would refer to Jesus as "the so-called Christ"  (any more than you would refer to YHWH as 'the so-called God') or make Him a secondary character to James (this passage is about the execution of James by Ananus).

The other reference, Antiquities 18.3.3, was obviously altered, but there's little doubt that Josephus wrote about Jesus in some sense, since some of the phrasing used in that passage was clearly written by someone who didn't believe in Jesus, and even matches Josephus' writing style.  For example, the writer first refers to Jesus as 'a wise man' and then adds 'it it be lawful to call him a man'.  If the writer thought it unlawful to call Jesus a 'man', then why did the writer call him one?  Clearly we've got two writers here, the first not a Christian, the second one a Christian.  Also, the ending phrase about how 'the tribe of Christians are not extinct at this day', the word used for 'tribe' is a disrespectful one, not something a Christian would use to describe his brethren, and it also suggests that Christians would be extinct at some point in the near future, a belief not common to Christianity.  So Josephus likely wrote something saying that Jesus was a wise man, and His followers were still around, and someone added to it later on, perhaps accidentally. One likelihood is that a Christian had a copy of the text, added some notes to the side about how Jesus was more than just 'a wise man' and other stuff, and later someone copying the text accidentally included the notes.  Whether the additions were intentional or not, there's little doubt that Josephus wrote something about Jesus in this passage.

I asked the rabbi's, why they don't tell other people about all these truths. The answer hurt me, their reason is, in the past they would kill us and hurt our children. They went on to say, the world at large is Christian, rulers etc. They keep silent because of what has happened over and over in history.

I seriously doubt that such things would happen anymore, at least in this country. In fact, most of your claims are things I've already heard before, mostly from atheists. It's not that everyone's keeping silent about them. There are many web sites on the internet talking about these things, and many Christian sites responding to them.

I do not want to keep silent. I would die for truth. They need to trust in Yahweh more, follow His commands, stand up in faith of protection because until they do, there will be no blessing on the people as a whole.

I completely agree with you on that.  Following God isn't always easy, but it's always worth it in the long run.  Unless we're willing to be bold about our faith and face persecution when it comes, we're not good witnesses.  You're right that some people are keeping silent about these things.  But others are not.

A lot of the Jews today have adopted the ways of the pagans. It is called assimilation. They walk in fear and not in trust of the Mighty God [Yahweh]. They do not even want to say His name. They use HaShem, Adoni, God and Lord. I may be a thorn in their side because I am going to stand up for truth. I wish I had of known more when I was younger but Yahweh in His mercy probably knew I would not have been able to take it. The day I found out the truth, I had cried out to Yahweh, "teach me your truths, even if it hurts me." He did and it did ! It took me three weeks to come to complete healing. In my family, most act like they can not stand me. My daughter has said I have a demon. She is very active in Xanity. I can accept Jesus as a good Jew, going about doing what he thought was right but so much has been added to the story.  The Rabbi says, those that convert are stronger and know so much more that those born a Jew. Coverts are a blessing for truth.

My story is similar. I was an atheist for most of my life, and an agnostic for many years, also.  I sincerely believe that God wanted me to go through that, so that I can understand what those who don't believe in God are going through, so that I can be a better witness to them.  They say that God allows His children to suffer because it makes them sympathetic to others who suffer.  I think God wanted me to be an atheist so that I would be sympathetic to atheists and understand WHY they don't believe.

God bless,

David

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Jude wrote:

Hey David, You gave me a terrible chore. I threw much of my papers away and I guess that was stupid because it was months of study, books, library and internet. You will have to search them out yourself..Pagan and Christian Creeds by Edward Carpenter, The Two Babylon's, Paleolithic And Neolithic society and world View, , Bulfinch's Mythology, and other sources. I just can not remember.

Some of the myths changed over the years.

I have some of my notes but I hate to give them to you, since I do not have the information of where I read it. You may want to look up Horus of Egypt.

He was crucified between two thieves, buried for 3 days in a tomb and rose again.

He was called, the way, the truth and the light, messiah,god's anointed son, son of man, the good shepherd, lamb of god, the word made flesh, word of truth, the fisher,lamb and lion, krst.

He was to reigh 1000 years. In a temple at Loxor, there are images of the immaculate conception, birth and adoration of horus. The holy ghost impregnates the virgin.

In the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus held by the virgin mother, Isis. These were the original, Madonna and child.

horus was Rah. Pharaohs were considered his human manifestation. Another site I went to was, Christ A Myth.

Also, Hometown.aol.com. Also study about Julis Caesar. He wore a purple robe with a wreath,

He had a last supper.

Brutes killed himself..

Brutus Sicarivus

Judas Iscariot odd

At Julis Caesar's death the sun darkened for thee days, He resurrected as a god, I fond the source: Life of Caeser's...Josephes Antiquities...book 14 V 309

SALVATION ACCORDING TO JESUS

No where in the four gospels did Jesus say he would die to save mankind from sin. When approached by a man who asked what he could do to gain eternal life, Jesus told him to keep the commandments. Matthew 19:16-17.  A lawyer asked him a similar question, Jesus told him, "love Yahweh and His fellow man. Luke 10:25-28.

The mission of Jesus was not to set up a new method of achieving salvation or founding a new system, but only to take the Jews from their emphasis on ritual, to that of righteousness. Matthew 6:1-8

Paul of Tarsus is to blame for the origin of the doctrine of atonement, go to the words of Paul, not Jesus. Paul is the true founder of the teachings of present Christian terms and practices. pagans had a hard time accepting an invisible deity. Paul was accommodating for the pagans.

Jesus said, Yahweh desired good virtues, not sacrifice. Matthew 9:13

Matthew 6:12

Hosea 6:6

Will send more later !

Shalom, Jude

Hey David, here I am again....Who found Jesus's tomb empty ?

Matthew 28:1 Mary and Mary Magdalene

Mark 1:2 mary, Mary Magdalene and Salome

Luke 24:10 Mary, Mary Magdalene. Joanna and other women.

Was the tomb opened or closed ?

Luke 24:2 open

Matthew 8:1-2 closed

What did the women find at the tomb ?

Matthew 28:5 an angel outside

Mark 16:6 a man were they in or out ? inside

Luke 24:4 two men inside

All Bible scholars know that the original text read, the women ran out of the tomb in fear and trembling, saying nothing to anyone. As time passed and Jesus did not appear, people began asking embarrassing questions...church leaders, later put new endings, adding to what was already written. New Revised Standard Version of the Bible gives the short and long endings of Mark.

There were no Jewish customs to release a prisoner at Passover.

John 21:25 was not in the early manuscripts.

Matthew 28:18-20 The great commission........teach all nations.....how long would it take 11 or 12 men in a 3 mile per hour world ? Do not worry about it.............

read: Matthew 10:23 and 16:28

Concerning Judas Iscariot: why would the chief priests pay to have someone pointed out who they already knew ? Matthew 26:55 He sat daily teaching in the temple.

Jesus appears to the 11 Mark 16:14 and Luke 24:33 who is missing?

Here it is.. John 20:24

Luke 2:39...circumcision on the 8th day

redemption of first born, 30th day

Mary's purification, 40th day then they returned to Nezereth.

What happened to Egypt ?

Nazareth of Galilee did not exist. 4th century, Constantines mother, Helena was so dismayed not being able to find Nazareth, she selected a sight with ruins and called it Nazareth.

Tour guides in Jerusalem, tell people they are walking on the streets where Jesus walked but the tour guide does not tell them that they are about 30 feet higher than the streets were in the alleged time of Jesus.

In Raanana Israel are a people accepted by the orthodox Jews as being Jews. These people have some writings showing who Jesus was. Theses people called Netzarim/ Zetzarim were expelled from Jerusalem by the Romans in 135 CE. Roman Gentiles filled the vacuum and began to bring in their pagan and polytheistic belief system. They created their own image of Rabbi Jesus.

Truth can be so beautiful and set us free.

Love,

Hey Jude :-)


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